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Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

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By Jonathan Corbet
August 15, 2011
Edward Naughton is at it again: he is now claiming that most or all Android vendors have lost their right to distribute the kernel as the result of GPL violations. Naturally Florian Mueller picked it up and amplified it; he is amusingly surprised to learn that there are GPL compliance problems in the Android world. As it happens, there is no immediate prospect of Android vendors being unable to ship their products - at least, not as a result of GPL issues - but there is a point here which is worth keeping in mind.

First: please bear in mind while reading the following that your editor is not a lawyer and couldn't even plausibly play one on television.

Earlier this year, Jeremy Allison gave a talk on why the Samba project moved to version 3 of the GNU General Public License. There were a number of reasons for the change, but near the top of his list was the "GPLv2 death penalty." Version 2 is an unforgiving license: any violation leads to an automatic termination of all rights to the software. A literal reading of this language leads to the conclusion that anybody who has violated the license must explicitly obtain a new license from the copyright holder(s) before they can exercise any of the rights given by the GPL. For a project that does not require copyright assignment, there could be a large number of copyright owners to placate before recovery from a violation would be possible.

The Samba developers have dealt with their share of GPL violations over the years. As has almost universally been the case in our community, the Samba folks have never been interested in vengeance or "punitive damages" from violators; they simply want the offending parties to respect the license and come back into compliance. When the GPL was written to become GPLv3, that approach was encoded into the license; violators who fix their problems in a timely manner automatically have their rights reinstated. There is no "death penalty" which could possibly shut violators down forever; leaving this provision behind was something that the Samba team was happy to do.

Android phones are capable devices, but they still tend not to be shipped with Samba servers installed. They do, however, contain the Linux kernel, which happens to be a GPLv2-licensed body of code with thousands of owners. Those who find it in their interest to create fear, uncertainty, and doubt around Android have been happy to seize on the idea that a GPL violation will force a vendor to locate and kowtow before all of those owners before they can ship the kernel again. There can be no doubt that this is a scary prospect.

One should look, though, at the history of how GPL violations have been resolved in the past. There is a fair amount of case history - and a much larger volume of "quietly resolved" cases - where coming into compliance has been enough. Those who have pursued GPL violations in the courts have asked for organizational changes (the appointment of a GPL compliance officer, perhaps), payment of immediate expenses, and, perhaps, a small donation to a worthy project. But the point has been license compliance, not personal gain or disruption of anybody's business; that is especially true of the kernel in particular.

Harald Welte and company won their first GPL court case in 2004; the practice of quietly bringing violators into compliance had been going on for quite some time previously. Never, in any of these cases, has a copyright-holding third party come forward and claimed that a former infringer lacks a license and is, thus, still in violation. The community as a whole has not promised that licenses for violators will be automatically restored when the guilty parties come back into compliance, but it has acted that way with great consistency for many years. Whether a former violator could use that fact to build a defense based on estoppel is a matter for lawyers and judges, but the possibility cannot be dismissed out of hand. Automatic reinstatement is not written into the license, but it's how things have really worked.

There is an interesting related question: how extensive is the termination of rights? Each kernel release is a different work; the chances that any given piece of code has been modified in a new release are pretty high. One could argue that each kernel release comes with its own license; the termination of one does not necessarily affect rights to other releases. Switching to a different release would obviously not affect any ongoing violations, but it might suffice to leave holdovers from previous violations behind. Should this naive, non-lawyerly speculation actually hold water, the death penalty becomes a minor issue at worst.

So Android vendors probably have bigger worries than post-compliance hassles from kernel copyright owners. Until they get around to that little detail of becoming a former violator, the question isn't even relevant, of course. Afterward, software patents still look like a much bigger threat.

That said, your editor has, in the past, heard occasional worries about the prospect of "copyright trolls." It's not too hard to imagine that somebody with a trollish inclination might come into possession of the copyright on some kernel code; that somebody could then go shaking down former violators with threats of lawsuits for ongoing infringement. This is not an outcome which would be beneficial to our community, to say the least.

One would guess that a copyright troll with a small ownership would succeed mostly in getting his or her code removed from the kernel in record time. Big holders could pose a bigger threat. Imagine a company like IBM, for example; IBM owns the copyright on a great deal of kernel code. IBM also has the look of one of those short-lived companies that doesn't hang around for long. As this flash-in-the-pan fades, its copyright portfolio could be picked up by a troll which would then proceed to attack prior infringers. Writing IBM's code out of the kernel would not be an easy task, so some other sort of solution would have to be found. It is not a pretty scenario.

It is also a relatively unlikely scenario. Companies that have built up ownership of large parts of the kernel have done so because they are committed to its success. It is hard to imagine them turning evil in such a legally uncertain way. But it's not a possibility which can be ignored entirely. The "death penalty" is written into the license; someday, somebody may well try to take advantage of that to our detriment.

What would happen then? Assuming that the malefactor is not simply lawyered out of existence, other things would have to come into play. Remember that the development community is currently adding more than one million lines of code to the kernel every year. Even a massive rewrite job could be done relatively quickly if the need were to arise. If things got really bad, the kernel could conceivably follow Samba's example and move to GPLv3 - though that move, clearly, would not affect the need to remove problematic code. One way or another, the problem would be dealt with. Copyright trolls probably do not belong at the top of the list of things we lose sleep over at the moment.


to post comments

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 15, 2011 18:59 UTC (Mon) by bkuhn (subscriber, #58642) [Link] (15 responses)

The part that's missing in all this is the original violation by Google. I have never seen a report with facts that support that Google violated the GPL with regard to its distribution of Linux as part of Android/Linux.

Sure, there are many downstream GPL violators, Matthew Garrett has identified plenty, but I don't see Google on that list.

It's absolutely correct that under GPLv2§4 a violator loses their right to copy, modify and distribute the copyrighted work, but that presupposes some violation has occurred.

As I said in the blog post I made the last time Naughton went off on this stuff, I am still waiting to see the actual GPL violation report.

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 15, 2011 19:58 UTC (Mon) by felipec (guest, #75494) [Link] (12 responses)

GPLv3? Seriously?

I see more likely the kernel project coming up with it's own licence, probably based on GPLv2, or maybe the opportunity would be ceased to create an entirely new beast that would be completely independent from GNU.

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 16, 2011 2:13 UTC (Tue) by rusty (guest, #26) [Link] (9 responses)

> GPLv3? Seriously?
>
> I see more likely the kernel project coming up with it's own licence,
> probably based on GPLv2, or maybe the opportunity would be ceased to
> create an entirely new beast that would be completely independent from GNU.

Now, that seems unlikely. Mainly because coders don't have the skills to read, let along write, a license. But also much of the "sky is falling" anti-GPLv3 stuff hasn't panned out; personally I'm happy that all my kernel stuff is v2 or later.

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 16, 2011 4:27 UTC (Tue) by dlang (guest, #313) [Link] (3 responses)

the same can be said for all the 'sky is falling' anti GPLv2 stuff that was used to justify creating GPLv3

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 16, 2011 6:30 UTC (Tue) by rusty (guest, #26) [Link]

> the same can be said for all the 'sky is falling' anti GPLv2 stuff that
> was used to justify creating GPLv3

Agreed. And it *is* annoying that lawyers (on any side) won't publicly discuss details of how to circumvent the GPL, but I understand their reasons. I also don't know how many of these exploits were practical, rather than theoretical.

But those I know involved in the drafting, such as Harald Welte and Andrew Tridgell and various lawyers were reasonably happy with the overall result. Eventually, as a user, it's time to upgrade, and for me that time has come.

Cheers,
Rusty.

Please back up this claim.

Posted Aug 16, 2011 13:55 UTC (Tue) by bkuhn (subscriber, #58642) [Link]

Can you please give backup for the claim that those promoting GPLv3 used sky is falling anti-GPLv2 rhetoric? I don't think that FSF did, and I know I certainly didn't. There were some in the GPLv3 process who may have done so, I suppose, but I don't think you'll find that the majority of GPLv3 supporters agree with such people.

I still think GPLv2 is a good license. GPLv3 is a better one.

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 16, 2011 14:29 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

That wasn't the justification for creating GPLv3 at all. There was very clear reasons stated throughout the very large drafting process involving many members in the volunteer community and several vendors. There has been many good advantages as a end result. Apache v2 license compatibility, explicit patent license and internationalization among the large items and other several smaller ones include more explicit terms when recovering from a license violation, dealing with bittorrent distribution etc. GPLv3 *is* a better license.

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 16, 2011 5:08 UTC (Tue) by cmccabe (guest, #60281) [Link] (3 responses)

Hmm. The COPYING file at the top level of the kernel tree says:

> Also note that the only valid version of the GPL as far as the kernel
> is concerned is _this_ particular version of the license (ie v2, not
> v2.2 or v3.x or whatever), unless explicitly otherwise stated.
>
> Linus Torvalds

As far as I can see, the kernel can't be relicensed from GPLv2 without the consent of all the copyright holders.

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 16, 2011 6:17 UTC (Tue) by rusty (guest, #26) [Link]

> Also note that the only valid version of the GPL as far as the kernel
> is concerned is _this_ particular version of the license (ie v2, not
> v2.2 or v3.x or whatever), unless explicitly otherwise stated.

Indeed, but there *are* places where "or later" is explicitly stated. It would be a major PITA to relicense to anything, but GPLv3 would be slightly easier for that reason.

Cheers,
Rusty.

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 16, 2011 20:29 UTC (Tue) by dbruce (guest, #57948) [Link] (1 responses)

"As far as I can see, the kernel can't be relicensed from GPLv2 without the consent of all the copyright holders."

IMHO, the reason the kernel is still GPLv2 is that Linus wants it that way. If he and the core kernel devs reached a consensus that they wanted to go to e.g. GPLv3 or later, any code belonging to those who refused to go along could be ripped out and replaced. Not so sure about the authors who don't reply or can't be reached, but if need be their code could be replaced as well. I just don't think there is any desire on Linus' part to switch, to put it mildly.

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 20, 2011 16:21 UTC (Sat) by BenHutchings (subscriber, #37955) [Link]

What about all the drivers maintained by hardware vendors? Some vendors have consciously decided not to licence under 'or later'. If the hardware documentation has not been made freely available then a vendor can block what it sees as a hostile rewrite. That may just result in removal of the driver and loss of business for such a vendor. But the earlier customers would also be hurt by such a removal.

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 17, 2011 15:36 UTC (Wed) by felipec (guest, #75494) [Link]

> Now, that seems unlikely. Mainly because coders don't have the skills to read, let along write, a license.

Who says coders have to write a license? There's many organizations involved in Linux, some certainly must have the resources to undertake this endeavor. Who says GNU is the only organization capable of writing licenses?

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 16, 2011 4:56 UTC (Tue) by clacke (guest, #69542) [Link] (1 responses)

MPL v2 comes to mind. Coming soon to a project near you. Fits well with how Linus et al treat proprietary kernel modules.

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 17, 2011 8:15 UTC (Wed) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]

MPLv2 isn't a well suited license for Linus position.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060112162424/http://people.r...

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 16, 2011 20:50 UTC (Tue) by etrusco (guest, #4227) [Link]

This article (and Naughton's one) is not about any infringement in Android, is about the implication of previous infringement perpetrated by cell manufacturers like Samsung and LG.

Where was the original violation that kicked in GPLv2 Section 4?

Posted Aug 18, 2011 21:36 UTC (Thu) by mattl (guest, #56508) [Link]

GPLv2 section 4 is as strict as they're saying, but nobody's enforcing it that strictly against cooperative violators. That wouldn't be good for free software, which is why GPLv3 has better termination provisions.

http://www.fsf.org/news/android-termination-upgrade-gplv3

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 15, 2011 19:05 UTC (Mon) by martinfick (guest, #4455) [Link] (3 responses)

It would be interesting if some "troll", or even large company, tried to use this against another company as a retaliatory move to patent lawsuits. I suspect Google has a significant enough contribution to GPLedv2 code to potentially use this to defend itself against some patent litigation, but this would require its aggressors to use that code.

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 15, 2011 19:31 UTC (Mon) by danieldk (subscriber, #27876) [Link] (2 responses)

Use that code... *and* violate the license.

I guess it is a very difficult legal 'attack vector'. But we have been surprised by the creativity of legal departments/lawyers before ;).

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 15, 2011 21:23 UTC (Mon) by jengelh (subscriber, #33263) [Link] (1 responses)

>I guess it is a very difficult legal 'attack vector'.

/me thinks of a CVE-like database of legal vulnerabilities, completely with AV score and all that

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 15, 2011 21:36 UTC (Mon) by martinfick (guest, #4455) [Link]

Nice. :) or? :(

Although, I am suggesting to view these not as vulnerabilities, but rather as defenses. Once a company violates the GPL2, they get stuck in a DB. Authors could search the db to correlate users/violators of their code with people suing them, or otherwise being malicious.

While I could see some bad uses of such a DB, it seems like mostly it could be used to attempt to police bad FLOSS citizens by FLOSS authors.

Jeremy's Samba/GPL talk

Posted Aug 15, 2011 19:14 UTC (Mon) by bkuhn (subscriber, #58642) [Link]

BTW, if folks want to hear Jeremy Allison's talk that Jon makes reference to in the article above, it's available as a Free as in Freedom oggcast.

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 15, 2011 20:49 UTC (Mon) by allan1015 (guest, #78373) [Link]

>>One should look, though, at the history of how GPL violations have been resolved in the past.

Agree but didn't the SFLC signal a change to past performance?
from: http://m.zdnet.com.au/open-source-legal-body-sues-over-gp...

"Simply coming into compliance now is not sufficient to settle the matter, because that would mean anyone can violate the license until caught, because the only punishment would be to come into compliance," Ravicher said, though he declined to say what other actions the SFLC is seeking.

And the SFLC doesn't want to be a pushover. "If you start getting a reputation for being a pansy, then people are going to conclude they don't have to do anything," Ravicher said."

I am not in disagreement with your point of the FUD being raised and the weirdness of copyright troll's - but as a open source compliancy person I cant just popo this stuff away either.

I do appreciate this place and the more levelheaded view it presents but it is a battle to stave off the headline grabbers and try to walk a balanced middle ground.

Naughton's Microsoft bona fides

Posted Aug 15, 2011 23:20 UTC (Mon) by kmself (guest, #11565) [Link] (3 responses)

Since it's been mentioned previously, and Naughton's present professional bio doesn't include this information, it's at the very least interesting to note that he has worked extensively with Microsoft in the past. Criticisms of Naughton's work by Bradley Kuhn of the FSF and others would suggest his legal analysis isn't taken as credible by persons with significant interest and experience in Free Software and GPL matters.

Edward J. Naughton, Professional Biography, Internet Archive as of June 22, 2008.

• Co-counsel defending Microsoft against a putative consumer class action alleging that it had violated wiretapping statutes and common law privacy rights by designing Windows to permit third parties to place cookies on computers. Obtained dismissal of complaint.

...

• Represented Microsoft in several dozen lawsuits against resellers and corporate end-users of counterfeit, infringing, and unlicensed software.

(This would appear to be the "Fortune 50 software company" referenced in his current bio).

Naughton's Microsoft bona fides

Posted Aug 16, 2011 10:19 UTC (Tue) by jospoortvliet (guest, #33164) [Link] (2 responses)

I do doubt that the fact he worked for MS has very much to do with all this (although talking to MS ppl might have changed his opinions on things and the like).

Ok, I don't know, but it's not really needed to explain his behavior and as such I simply go for the simplest explanation: he just wants attention. Which works exceptionally well. Realize that this is typical FUD: only those who know what they are talking about (the average LWN reader, for example) know it's bullshit but 90% of the readers of his blog will probably take it as an insightful article by a good and clearly smart lawyer ("let's hire him to defend us/check our legal situation/etc").

Frankly those who think MS is behind this (same as with SCO) imho greatly over-estimate the intelligence of large corporations. This is too cunning a plan to come out of a bureaucratic entity as big as MS.

Naughton's Microsoft bona fides

Posted Aug 16, 2011 11:32 UTC (Tue) by danieldk (subscriber, #27876) [Link]

It is not uncommon for proprietary software vendors put forward such arguments in bids to scare parties that would consider a GPL-licensed alternative.

For instance, in 2006, Wasabi Systems argues that GPL Violations are Sarbanes-Oxley violations to discredit GPL-ed competition of their storage systems:

http://www.wasabisystems.com/pdf/GPLSarbanesOxley_Wasabi.pdf
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2006/Sarbanes-Ox...

I am not saying that Microsoft instructed him to spread fear, but it is possible that he picked this up in Microsoft channels.

Since this FUD is probably used a lot, it is important that it is shown to be theoretical or false. If it is true, the situation is best remedied.

Naughton's Microsoft bona fides

Posted Aug 16, 2011 18:50 UTC (Tue) by kmself (guest, #11565) [Link]

It might be connected, it might not.

Microsoft have certainly spread anti-GPL FUD for years, and this would be highly consistent with their previous behavior.

They've also worked at arms-length through astroturf campaigns, lobbying groups, and various companies (the Alexis de Toqueville Institute and Wang v. Netscape come to mind). Multiple times.

And the key personnel at Microsoft then and now remain.

I see it as an institutional disease, and view them with extreme skepticism and prejudice.

Of course, he could just be an attention-whoring, not-too-bright attorney.

But I repeat myself.

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 16, 2011 6:24 UTC (Tue) by spaetz (guest, #32870) [Link] (4 responses)

Alledgedly the SLFC itself has argued that one would need to get the explicit consent from all copyright holders to get a new license. However, that seems unlikely to be true. (I am no lawyer)

1) Even if my license right is revoked, the "no-one may be excluded" GPL will always allow me to re-get the kernel code from anyone who offers it, and I'll have a new license.

2) As Corbet wrote, a new version might also be sufficient.

3) If Sony violates the GPL for its ebook readers and gets a gpl life time penalty, they just re-found themselves as a new legal entity to work around that ;).

Seriously, even for copyright trolls, I really don't see how this would play out in court. Contrary to the reports, the GPL does not say that you need explicit consent to heal your license violation, it is simply quiet about how the healing process would work. The most interesting part of the story is how all media outlets were eager to post this with an eye-catching headline, citing Florian Mueller. (First they had called him patent layer, then they called him patent expert, now at least they call him a patent-blogger).

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 16, 2011 6:26 UTC (Tue) by spaetz (guest, #32870) [Link] (1 responses)

patent layer -> patent lawyer

Sorry

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 18, 2011 7:33 UTC (Thu) by etrusco (guest, #4227) [Link]

Now if you spelled "patent liar" it'd make for a spectacular typo.
Sorry, I know this not slashdot but I couldn't resist :-$

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 17, 2011 14:08 UTC (Wed) by mikov (guest, #33179) [Link] (1 responses)

I remember just a few weeks ago I was one of the people defending Florian Mueller. However after following his Google+ just for a few days it has become painfully obvious that his main purpose is to create anti-Android FUD, without any pretense of objectivity at all.

He is a very dangerous man because his posts and comments appear factual at first sight and apparently he is regarded as an "expert" by many tech journalists.

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 17, 2011 20:31 UTC (Wed) by rahvin (guest, #16953) [Link]

If you had been watching this campaign from the start he worked with Microsoft and a few other corporations trying to get stories into the news. Once he had contacts with the journalists his "articles/posts" became much more inflammatory and he began getting more and more citations. It appears from my perspective that the early articles were to get credibility with the press so that a more elaborate attack campaign could be bred using the contacts and history of citation. As time has moved he's moved from factual based discussions to wild accusations and speculation without a basis in fact at all.

IMO it's similar to corporations using established advocacy groups to petition for causes completely unrelated to their advocacy (for money). For example, several major national advocacy groups like the GLAAD (Gay Lesbian alliance) were paid advocates in support of ATT's purchase of T-Mobile. (in the case of GLAAD the membership revolted and fired the director for doing this).

Mueller is a plant who's being paid to create a campaign of FUD. He's been questioned numerous times about who is behind the campaign and if you read his responses carefully you will note that he never responds to the question. I'll at least give him credit for not lying about it, he just refuses to answer the question. But make no mistake, there is an organized campaign of FUD going on here and Mueller is at the front of it.

Personally I expect that his backers will walk away once the Google purchase of Motorola Mobility goes forward, with 17,500 patents and another 7,500 in process that are almost entirely mobile phone based Google will be the new heavyweight patent holder in the mobile sphere. Mueller will have to look for someone else to pay for his FUD.

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 17, 2011 18:36 UTC (Wed) by misiu_mp (guest, #41936) [Link] (3 responses)

It's been said before, but i will reiterate: Android, Google, Honeycomb do not violate the GPL (to date)! All GPL licensed parts are disclosed in code as required.
If they would violate the GPL and were stupid enough to insist on doing so, I would feel no compassion for them.
This Mueller type &co are obviously waging a dirty war against Android, but on behalf of whom exactly?

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 18, 2011 7:29 UTC (Thu) by etrusco (guest, #4227) [Link] (1 responses)

Again: This article (and Naughton's one) is not about any infringement in Android, is about the implication of previous infringement/convictions by cell phone manufacturers like Samsung and LG.

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 18, 2011 16:10 UTC (Thu) by misiu_mp (guest, #41936) [Link]

Mueller's article is explicitly about copyright violations in Android.

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 22, 2011 19:24 UTC (Mon) by jdv (guest, #712) [Link]

Google indeed probably does not violate the GPL, not even with the Honeycomb version (although I seem to remember there was a bit of complaining about the time it sometimes takes them to post source code).

But individual manufacturers may very well violate the GPL -- the fact that Google has source code available somewhere does not absolve them of offering the code as well (either on the CD you get with your phone, or with a 'written offer' to provide the source to you). It appears that many phone manufacturers do this rather well, but others don't. In the worst case, this might lead to those manufacturers having their license to distribute Android be revoked, and thus would not be able to sell Android phones anymore.

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Aug 19, 2011 21:30 UTC (Fri) by malor (guest, #2973) [Link]

Automatic reinstatement is not written into the license, but it's how things have really worked.

I'm not sure this is really an issue. My take on it has always been that every time you make a new copy of GPL-licensed code, you automatically take out a new license. Even if you lost your right to distribute for a violation, as soon as you brought yourself back into compliance, you could simply download a new copy, and be back in business.

Everyone who has a copy of the GPL has the same rights, and those rights are inherently transitive, so they would, in my view, retransmit with a new copy. The rights must transfer with every copy, and I see no language that they only transfer once, ever.

As long as you remained in compliance with the license thereafter, I don't think you could be successfully sued.

Just for the record...

Posted Aug 22, 2011 17:35 UTC (Mon) by cdibona (guest, #13739) [Link] (1 responses)

Hi All;

Chris DiBona with Google here. If anyone actually finds Google out of compliance with an open source license, I and my team really really would like to know this! Please feel free to email me at [email protected] or [email protected] if you have any questions.

Now, obviously I don't really care about concern trolls that try to gin up false issues around android, but I and Google actually do care about what open source developers whose code we use think about us. We want to know if we make a mistake so we can fix it and more importantly we want to know how we can help.

So again, if you think a google product is out of complaince, contact me any time. That's the last thing we want!

Just for the record...

Posted Aug 22, 2011 18:55 UTC (Mon) by mjg59 (subscriber, #23239) [Link]

For what it's worth, after spending a lot of time looking into Android compliance, I've found no evidence that Google themselves are in any way in violation of their GPL obligations. I'd love to see Google do more in terms of encouraging compliance (such as tying use of the Android trademark to license compliance), and I think that in the long term they'd plausibly benefit from doing so, but they're under no obligation to and if they don't want to then that's their prerogative.

Android and the GPLv2 death penalty

Posted Sep 3, 2011 4:28 UTC (Sat) by jcm (subscriber, #18262) [Link]

We had a wonderful thread in the Open Hardware space recently when Bruce and a few others got very excited about the inability for copyright to apply to designs, and the problems this might pose for open hardware licenses. I pointed out then what I'm going to point out here: all of this is fantastical discussion, but that's all it is. Licenses like the GPL set various expectations, and are mostly enforced through the community and public relations impact upon those who are deemed in "violation". There aren't millions of cases in the courts because most of the time human beings can figure things out without getting excited about litigation possibilities that aren't likely to happen.


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