Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
The patents at issue cover a range of functionality embodied in Android devices that are essential to the user experience, including: natural ways of interacting with devices by tabbing through various screens to find the information they need; surfing the Web more quickly, and interacting with documents and e-books." Information on the specific patents involved is not yet available.
Update: ZDNet has a
list of the patents at issue.
Posted Mar 21, 2011 20:33 UTC (Mon)
by dan_linder (guest, #88)
[Link] (10 responses)
Of course, the settlement with B&N may be to pay a minimal fee to MS for each Nook reader sold and then MS can say that they "won" the battle.
I hope B&N can get Google to come on too. Let's settle this patent problem once and for all.
If not, it'll draw attention to the fact that patents are not for the "small inventor" anymore...
Dan
Posted Mar 21, 2011 21:01 UTC (Mon)
by leomilano (guest, #32220)
[Link] (2 responses)
[1] If you visit www.nokia.com as of this writing (and for the last few days), the most prominent word you see is MICROSOFT all in capital letters.
Posted Mar 21, 2011 23:02 UTC (Mon)
by pboddie (guest, #50784)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Mar 22, 2011 4:20 UTC (Tue)
by jordanb (guest, #45668)
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Posted Mar 21, 2011 21:40 UTC (Mon)
by b7j0c (guest, #27559)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Mar 22, 2011 20:51 UTC (Tue)
by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
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Posted Mar 23, 2011 6:40 UTC (Wed)
by AndreE (guest, #60148)
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Posted Mar 22, 2011 20:40 UTC (Tue)
by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
[Link] (3 responses)
B&N will hardly "get Google to come on too." With 500-odd patents, most of them just search-related, Google is too weak to have an impact in such a dispute. Yesterday's lawsuits (a federal suit and an ITC complaint) take the number of Android-related patent lawsuits up to 37. If Google had the ability to show some authority with its own patents, many of those would never have been filed in the first place.
Posted Mar 23, 2011 0:32 UTC (Wed)
by forlwn (guest, #63934)
[Link] (2 responses)
This is bullshit.
Are you aware of Google's company portfolio ?
Posted Mar 23, 2011 7:05 UTC (Wed)
by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
[Link] (1 responses)
This is bullshit. Are you aware of Google's company portfolio ? I am perfectly aware, you are not, which doesn't of course prevent you from writing a comment like that. Plus, I am civilized while you are not. So, here are the facts why Google's patent portfolio is far too weak to protect Android. That article contains links to the USPTO database and to useful statistics. Google is a patent dwarf.
Posted Mar 24, 2011 4:06 UTC (Thu)
by forlwn (guest, #63934)
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Posted Mar 21, 2011 23:34 UTC (Mon)
by karim (subscriber, #114)
[Link] (11 responses)
Posted Mar 22, 2011 0:17 UTC (Tue)
by daney (guest, #24551)
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Posted Mar 22, 2011 20:43 UTC (Tue)
by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
[Link] (9 responses)
To many device makers, Android is a nightmare as far as patent litigation (now 37 Android-related lawsuits) is concerned. Of course, intellectual property issues are only one part of the consideration. Up to a certain point they may just look at a seemingly free and open (in reality, neither free nor fully open) offering as an attractive choice, especially as long as consumers like it. But if the 37 Android-related suits that have already been filed have to be settled, plus the many more that will likely be filed this year, it's hard to see how Android will be economically far less attractive because of the need to dole out $5 to patent holder A, $10 to B, $15 to C, $12 to D, etc.
Posted Mar 22, 2011 20:57 UTC (Tue)
by foom (subscriber, #14868)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Mar 22, 2011 20:59 UTC (Tue)
by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
[Link]
I have no conflicts of interest to disclose, period.
Posted Mar 22, 2011 21:17 UTC (Tue)
by martinfick (subscriber, #4455)
[Link] (1 responses)
If someone is making bogus points because of their affiliations, then the bogus points should speak for themselves, no? Pointing out their supposed affiliations does nothing for those of us who use logic in evaluating comments. Please recognize that this type of attack is itself appealing to fear.
Posted Mar 23, 2011 15:19 UTC (Wed)
by michel (subscriber, #10186)
[Link]
Ask yourself that if you were a medical professional and you go to a conference where another professional in the field talks about a new treatment option which seems to provide great benefits for a disease, with much factual data to support it's efficacy, wouldn't you like to know if that person was paid by the manufacturer of that treatment? It won't change the facts and it all maybe very much above reproach, but having that information will make you wonder if there may not be other facts that are *not* being disclosed.
Mr. Mueller certainly knows a lot more about patents than I do, but so far I've seen just two statements from him about this:
That does not mean his arguments are invalid, his analysis of the *presented* facts are faulty, or that he's lying.
Having said all that, I do find myself caring less and less about his posts and the ensuing spam fest that seems to follow. But I do like freedom of expression, and I can *choose* to listen, or not.
Posted Mar 22, 2011 23:38 UTC (Tue)
by Zack (guest, #37335)
[Link] (1 responses)
Citation needed. I doubt it's pleasant for those device makers, but without proper citation it's hard to know whether they consider it "a nightmare" or an expected annoyance, business as usual.
>Of course, intellectual property issues are only one part of the consideration.
You mean software patent issues here, right ?
>Up to a certain point they may just look at a seemingly free and open
but "Its not like Androids free.", right ? Who was it again that said that ? Looked a little like Gene Simmons, but shinier.
>(in reality, neither free nor fully open)
Now can you substantiate that *without* referring to a certain blog ?
>offering as an attractive choice, especially as long as consumers like it.
and maybe it will remain so, because it is, in fact, very popular. So even after paying all these potential patent taxes, device manufacturers would still come out ahead. So until the dust settles and the true extent of this economic burden of software patents is known, it's no use trying to disuade manufacturers not to use android and implicitly to opt for a "safer" competitor (which is the elephant in the room in your argument).
>But if the 37 Android-related suits that have already been filed have to be settled, plus the many more that will likely be filed this year,
then they might still get the better deal.
>it's hard to see how Android will be economically far less attractive because of the need to dole out $5 to patent holder A, $10 to B, $15 to C, $12 to D, etc.
Not hard at all. Trolls, like parasites, want their host to be popular and widespread. Killing it off by leeching too much is bad business.
Maybe you're right after all, and android is just not "safe". But there are a lot of 'ifs' in your scenario I'm not willing to take at face value.
Posted Mar 23, 2011 6:57 UTC (Wed)
by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
[Link]
Now can you substantiate that [neither free nor fully open] *without* referring to a certain blog ? Since these are complex issues, it's more efficient to link to write-ups on them than to go into every detail in a comment here. About "free", you could see Microsoft's statement on the Barnes & Noble suit, which mentioned that many others including Amazon.com and HTC already pay royalties to them and they expect everyone else to pay. Then you look at the 37 Android-related patent lawsuits taking place already (plus there will be many more, I'm sure), and many if not most or even all of those will result in royalty-bearing license deals. It doesn't matter who previously said that Android isn't free. If it isn't, it isn't. If someone I don't agree with on something else tells me the Earth is round, the answer isn't that it's "flat". It's that he's right, it's round, and I still beg to differ on other issues. Concerning Android's openness, just look at the Skyhook case, where Google bullied Motorola and Samsung to prevent them from using a competing geotagging solution. So even after paying all these potential patent taxes, device manufacturers would still come out ahead. So until the dust settles and the true extent of this economic burden of software patents is known, it's no use trying to disuade manufacturers not to use android and implicitly to opt for a "safer" competitor (which is the elephant in the room in your argument). I'm not dissuading anyone. I look at what's going on and analyze it. All it takes is a few patent holders successfully collecting $10 or $20 on each device, and the end user price of a device goes up $100 or more. If Google had a strong patent portfolio, it could solve some of this through cross-licensing, but with 500-odd patents it's not a serious player in that game. Those are facts that I'm perfectly entitled to analyze and discuss. Just like you're entitled to a different expecation. The assumption that those 37 patent lawsuits are just all going to go away without substantial implications for the competitiveness of Android is, however, very unrealistic.
Posted Mar 23, 2011 14:13 UTC (Wed)
by southey (guest, #9466)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Mar 23, 2011 14:19 UTC (Wed)
by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
[Link]
In your responses, you keep ignoring that this suit has zero to do with Android and would occur for any OS such as Palm, Symbian and Blackberry if these got or had gotten sufficient successful You're just wrong on both counts:
Posted Mar 23, 2011 14:20 UTC (Wed)
by karim (subscriber, #114)
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Posted Mar 22, 2011 0:56 UTC (Tue)
by drag (guest, #31333)
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Posted Mar 22, 2011 1:06 UTC (Tue)
by Cyberax (✭ supporter ✭, #52523)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Mar 22, 2011 2:02 UTC (Tue)
by foom (subscriber, #14868)
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Posted Mar 22, 2011 3:47 UTC (Tue)
by AndreE (guest, #60148)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Mar 22, 2011 9:17 UTC (Tue)
by rvfh (guest, #31018)
[Link]
But I agree with you, if it's natural, then it requires no engineering and not much thinking, so the patent protects a "good idea that everybody has" rather than a complex design that took years and money to come up with, thus impeding further invention.
Posted Mar 22, 2011 15:00 UTC (Tue)
by zotz (guest, #26117)
[Link]
my initial thought too.
Posted Mar 22, 2011 4:17 UTC (Tue)
by forlwn (guest, #63934)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Mar 22, 2011 8:42 UTC (Tue)
by khim (subscriber, #9252)
[Link]
Are your really sure you want to see that? History does not repeat itself but it rhymes so it's good to know it. The good example is chemical industry. Today we have the same story with software. Only place of Gernamy is taken by China. Eventually open source will win (kinda) and trolls will lose (kinda) because software development will mostly move to China (and may be India). Why do I say trolls will kinda lose? Well - they will still have a viable "business" even when software development will happen in China and most of software will not be importable to US, but it'll not matter as much because most of world economy will be in China (and may be India) anyway. Why do I say open software will kinda win? Well, Chinese firms will use open software where available but they will use proprietary software too - and more often then not they will just ignore software licenses so GPL will not matter anymore... The whole patent hoopla is suicide move - but sadly it's suicide for industry and country, not for induvidual company, so Microsoft will not backpedal... It makes perfect sense for any induvidual company because it increases piece of pie it gets... even if it reduces the size of the pie. P.S. I still hope something will stop death spiral: is it really true that century and half have not taught us anything WRT patents? I expect not. But so far we are firmly on this suicide route.
Posted Mar 22, 2011 8:43 UTC (Tue)
by pauliusz (guest, #49461)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Mar 22, 2011 10:32 UTC (Tue)
by renox (guest, #23785)
[Link]
Very unlikely.
In the (very unlikely) case that BN resist too much (which would be very costly for them) and are on the verge of invalidating MS's patents, MS would probably just offer very good conditions for an out of court settlement.
The settlement would be of course under NDA, so MS would keep their patents and the FUD which comes with these..
Posted Mar 22, 2011 20:47 UTC (Tue)
by FlorianMueller (guest, #32048)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Mar 23, 2011 23:33 UTC (Wed)
by cmccabe (guest, #60281)
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Posted Mar 22, 2011 10:42 UTC (Tue)
by sorpigal (guest, #36106)
[Link] (8 responses)
Posted Mar 22, 2011 12:01 UTC (Tue)
by sgros (guest, #36440)
[Link] (7 responses)
Posted Mar 22, 2011 18:18 UTC (Tue)
by forlwn (guest, #63934)
[Link] (6 responses)
Every company is competing with an objective: gain user preference with the best balance among selling price vs quality. No one can sell for less than total cost plus a profit margin.
When an exogenous factor is added to cost, like the M$ tax, legal expenses, lobbying expenses and the like, the compensations are: less quality (cost reduction), less profit, higher selling prices. These measures damage the technological development because funds available and motivation for R&D will be less (why shall I make an effort to invent if I know that my invention will be stolen by a shark?)
Those who collect the proceeds from royalties will not do R%D because is useless. The monopoly position allow to simply don't care. That is the reason why Windows XP had the ridicule life time of around 10 years, was replaced by a worst and mediocre OS (Vista) and at the end Windows 7 was an improvement only because someone felt some fear when both Apple and Linux showed capable of advancing in that core market.
Android / Chrome / linux / open source, have a huge potential to threaten the Microsoft's core and peripheral business. They don't need to compete doing better. Its more cost effective for them to spread FUD by litigating. Money is an asset and they have lots of it. The competitors do not. Then they use it to compete.
The consumers will pay again. More for worst, at each gadget purchase.
Posted Mar 22, 2011 20:02 UTC (Tue)
by klbrun (subscriber, #45083)
[Link] (5 responses)
Have you checked the price of a browser recently?
Posted Mar 22, 2011 21:02 UTC (Tue)
by martinfick (subscriber, #4455)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Mar 22, 2011 22:22 UTC (Tue)
by klbrun (subscriber, #45083)
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Posted Mar 22, 2011 22:22 UTC (Tue)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
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Several supermarkets are allegedly selling it for less than the taxes on it.
Cheers,
Posted Mar 23, 2011 9:16 UTC (Wed)
by oldtomas (guest, #72579)
[Link]
Have you checked the price of malware recently?
Sad as it sounds: browsers are taking the place of malware more and more. "Loss leaders" is the technical term, AFAIR.
Yes, the intentions of the Mozilla Foundation may be laudable (and they are buying us a couple of years: hadn't Microsoft busted it by killing Netscape off too early, in its unlimited greed, we'd possibly be at that point by now), but the vulnerability of this whole construction to corporate greed is just mind-numbing:
Users are not the clients. Users are the wares.
Posted Mar 24, 2011 4:09 UTC (Thu)
by forlwn (guest, #63934)
[Link]
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
> On my blog and in discussions like I express exclusively my own beliefs, and that's all I have to say about that.
and
>I have no conflicts of interest to disclose, period.
Neither of those (in my opinion) are really a clear statement. I would probably want to know 'does Mr. Mueller receive any compensation from a company that has a substantial patent portfolio'? To me that is important to know because it will shape how I read and interpret his arguments. And not having seen that statement, will make me assume that he has and shape my interpretation accordingly. But that's clearly my choice. As far as I'm concerned Mr. Mueller does not have any obligation to disclose anything.
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
In your responses, you keep ignoring that this suit has zero to do with Android and would occur for any OS such as Palm, Symbian and Blackberry if these got or had gotten sufficient successful. This suit has everything to do with market competition. Just look at who is suing who as probably Apple and Microsoft have some deal not to sue each other yet. These are just scare/fud tactics to bully companies into their products while these companies think that they can get away with it.
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Make the Patent War Graph a complete graph!
Make the Patent War Graph a complete graph!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/nov/01/sma...
(graphic from Nov 2010, so way out of date by now).
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
On the stupidity of patents on "natural ways" of doing things
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
All I wish now, is that at the end of the "war" open source emerges as the clean winner, and the patent trolls as the losers.
amen
Oh, it will happen, but the victory will be Pyrrhic...
All I wish now, is that at the end of the "war" open source emerges as the clean winner, and the patent trolls as the losers.
1862: Britich control 50% of world market, French - 40%, Swiss and German are marginal players.
1873: German companies have 50% of the world market, French, Swiss and British have between 13% and 17% each.
1913: German firms control 80% of the world market, Swiss - about 8% and the rest of the world is the remaining 2%.Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Doing some spot checking my this-is-stupid sense is tingling. The 372 patent seems to cover just about any web browser. The 780 patent covers a using a "loading" animation as a placeholder icon.
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Wol
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Microsoft sues Barnes and Noble over Android
Firefox is free but is useless without an os.