Talk: Sauron

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sorry just passing through

It says Height: 20 feet 11.1 inches (2.72 metres) (movie) in the article. 20 feet is about 6 metres. Instead the 2.72 m stated is the height of the worlds tallest man Robert Pershing Wadlow (1918 - 1940). Perhaps someone who knows more about Sauron could clarify wether Robert Pershing Wadlow was indeed Sauron. A person J.R.R. may have known of. Quite the mystery!

80.203.92.159 20:14, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Sauron after the Third Age

The article says that Sauron could, in the end of days, possibly reforge the One Ring and control even Morgoth himself. As far as I know, The One Ring gave Sauron the dominion of the Rings of Power. Since the Rings of Power were essentially destroyed at the end of the Third Age, The One Ring wouldn't even give him any more power than he already had unless he somehow tricked the free peoples to reforge the Rings again. Furthermore, Morgoth took no part in the forging of the Rings which means that Sauron never could control him through the Ring.--66.31.40.222 01:22, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Picture

I think you guys should use a picture from the fellowship movie of Sauron, that would be bettter than just that picture of the eye

video

I was trying to find a good video of Sauron on youtube, all I got was this family guy skit lol Gimli 12:46, 2 January 2007 (UTC)..

<youtube width="400" height="400">CaJGJ6Vg-rk</youtube>

Of all things to get the eye, why did you have to go with the stupid, pathetic, juvinille, Simpsons Rip-off, Family Guy??--{{SUBST:Template:The evil O,malley sig}} 22:37, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Eye of Sauron

I think that the lower picture of the tower of Barad-Dur should have a caption of "The tower of Barad-Dur, on top of which is the Eye of Sauron.", instead of "The Eye of Sauron". Norn Guy 19:41, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Concerns

It sould say somewhere that the eye of Sauron is not confirmed to be a huge eye on Barad-Dur, it could be his spirit or something, or a figure of speech. tolkien never said the eye was an eye literaly! --The Evil O'malley 20:14, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I think it should say how it was written that Sauron would be brought back by Morgoth near the end of time/ world

Nowhere is it suggested (in any of the books) that Sauron was as powerful as the greastest of the Vala whilst wielding the one ring. This statement should be removed. The additional power he gained when wearing the one ring was the control over those who wore the lesser rings of power, and thus those rings themselves.

It says "Gandalf the Grey stole into Dol Guldur in TA 2850 and discovered the truth", the truth being that Sauron was the Necromancer.  This contradicts the timeline in that The Hobbit took place in TA 2941 which at the time the identity of the Necromancer was still unknown to all, including Gandalf.  Which date is wrong or am I mistaken? 

You're wrong in that by the time of The Hobbit, all of the Wise: Gandalf, Elrond, Sarumon, etc., knew the Necromancer was Sauron. It was Peter Jackson who changed it for his Hobbit movie, which is probably where you got that idea. This is noted in the "Deviations from the book" section of The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey. - Gradivus, 05:47, December 18, 2012 (UTC)

That's right. Gandalf discovered that the Necromancer of Dol Guldur is Sauron in TA 2850. He also found Thráin II there and received the map and key for Thorin II Oakenshield that initially started the Quest of Erebor. So without this discovery, there wouldn't even be "The Hobbit". The "pressing matters" that brought Gandalf down to Dol Guldur during the Companies journey was because the White Council finally decided to attack Dol Guldur with the result that Sauron was driven out of Mirkwood, appearing again openly in Mordor. --134.3.5.63 22:59, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Balrog?

Is Sauron a Balrog? Because it says Balrogs are fallen Maiar, which Sauron is. And on page 347, Legolas says "'It was a Balrog of Morgoth,' said Legolas; 'of all elf-banes the most deadly, save the One who sits in the Dark Tower.'"Petron 15:05, 21 March 2008 (UTC)Petron

Sauron and Balrogs are both fallen Maiar. Sauron is in a differnt 'physical' presence in Middle-earth than a Balrog. Therefore Sauron is not a Balrog but in a form of his own as a Maiar spirit; the balrogs are maiar who have taken a 'demon' like form.-- KingAragorn  talk  contribs  edits  email  19:06, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, that makes sense.Petron 01:52, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Balrogs are closer to demons than Sauron was. Fallen Maiar is a very broad term. HiddenVale 03:24, December 6, 2012 (UTC)

I've got to check my sources to know exactly where you can find some further explanation -- But the Balrogs were Fire-Maia's, most of whom, according to Tolkien, turned to follow Morgoth. A notable exception is the Maia who became the Sun -- the reason why elves and halflings refer to the sun as she.

Sauron on the other hand, as the wiki says, was a Maia "helper" under Aule's domain -- a crafter. Another notable Maia from that group is Saruman.Hoswy 15:23, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Lifespan

in the infobox Sauron's lifespan is said to end on the day the One Ring was cast into the cracks of Mount Doom. technically this is incorrect. Sauron was not destroyed, but he was forever diminished to a 'spirit of malice' that would wander the wastes, etc. etc. 72.0.72.121 01:53, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Evil can never truly be destroyed, and Sauron being an evil of such power cannot be hindered forever, even with the destruction of his ring. His power will grow over time, and he will return.

(Evil can never truly be destroyed, and Sauron being an evil of such power cannot be hindered forever, even with the destruction of his ring. His power will grow over time, and he will return.) Probably not true! When you're dead, you're dead. And yes evil can be destroyed.Sporefan102 23:43, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Sauron can not die, he is a maiar, and is therefore immortal.71.201.64.87 20:04, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Does Sauron Live after the Third Age?

The One Ring wouldn't give Sauron control over Morgoth. Don't be silly. —The preceding unsigned comment was summoned by 72.156.255.3 (talk • contribs).

For this to be on the main Sauron page is sould be rewritten - Razor77 18:15, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Sauron + Ring > Morgoth?? not possible.

"As he forged the One Ring he invested into it most of his power, effectively making him greater than even the mightiest of the Valar Melkor, although only being a Maia himself. "

This doesn't make sense. It needs to be reworded. The Power was his originally, the power he invested into the Ring. The Ring serves to help him channel his power into Dominating minds, using the Rings of Power as extensions, in a sense, of that control . But that doesn't give him the power of Melkor.

A theme that runs through Tolkien's work is that things are lesser, the more distant they are from the origin. So that Sauron wasnt any "greater" in power than he had been in the First Age, but there were no Luthiens or Berens in the Third age that could effectively challenge him.

Remember that the Ring was chopped from his finger by a man. Morgoth faced the "greatest" Elf Champion ever, and was only made lame. Sauron faced descendants of Luthien and Beren and killed them before they were able to defeat him completely.

So you can say that, with the Ring, Sauron effectively became as powerful as Morgoth in the Second Age, ... but that's as far as it would go.

Hoswy 15:34, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

In the third age is his spirit the eye or is he physical??

Ive been reading the article for a little while now, and it just seems to confusing for me to figure out on my own. Is he a spirit in the third age? If so is he the eye or is that just an extension of himself?--Lurzkesh1138 22:44, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

It's a matter of debate. Tolkien had him down as a Man of fearful form, not much greater physically than many among the Men of Gondor. As his symbol, he adopted a burning lidless eye to symbolise that he was all-seeing. He did not take the form of an "eye" but it was the symbol used to represent him by his minions.--Wyvern Rex. 12:35, January 4, 2011 (UTC)

wepons

someone rewrote this page and said sauron had a dagger thats wrong by far and he used his heat as a wepon too this article needs rewriteing.

Cleanup

"The extent, nature, and specifics of Sauron's power are largely left to the imagination. Like his master Morgoth, he is capable of altering the physical substance of the world around him by mere effort of will (albeit to a far lesser extent). He is also able to extend the natural life span of beings to almost infinite ends, the most prominent example being the Nazgûl, who were over three thousand years old by the time of the War of the Ring. This gives some legitimacy to his title "The Necromancer" used in "The Hobbit," although Tolkien retroactively applied to Sauron, and probably meant it more in the context of "Dark Sorcerer." "

This part needs cleanup, wasn't it so that the lifespan of the Nazgûl was not enlenghtened by Sauron, but because the life of fate of the Nazgûl were bound to that of the One Ring?

"The source of his power in the Third Age (and also a kind of familiar to him) was Mount Doom, a restless, violent volcano, which left Mordor a charred, blackened land."

I think this part deserves an edit as well. I don't think the source of his "power" in the Third Age was Mount Doom, I thought he still had a tiny bit of power left because he only encaptured most of his power in the One Ring. I'm taking the liberty to edit these parts.--Nognix 10:00, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

To the Nazgul: The Rings of power lenghtens the life of mortal creatures,I think that's exactly what happens to the Nazgul.Maybe this aspect is even intensified by the power of the One Ring and because the Nine Rings are bound to the One.In addition Gandalf says someone who's mortal is dwindling if he bears a ring of power and the Nazgul over the time become completely wraiths. -- Jo_Took

Why was Sauron evil, exactly?

I mean, what did he really want to use the One Ring for? The books/movies were just really so vague on this. What was his plan? To destroy the elves, humans, and all life on middle earth? To cause the end of the world? To turn everybody into orcs? I don't geddit. Its kinda hard for me to enjoy a story-no matter how awesome it is, if there are plot holes, especially big plot holes like this one, the villain's goal.

• My question would be, where it says

'Mairon was soon corrupted by the Dark Lord Morgoth ("The Great Enemy" in the tongue of men) an evil Vala and Dark Enemy of Arda, and turned evil, taking the name, "Sauron." At first, he was a spy for Morgoth, telling him of the Valar's doings.'

How was he corrupted? What did they do to him?

Sauron desired to control all life and enshroud all in darkness

Morgoth wanted to control/destroy the matter of the universe and Arda,and also become a creator

Morgoth probably corrupted Sauron by promices of godly and immortal power over all.

The Eye OF Sauron

I think the Wiki ought to point out that, unlike the movies, the books do not claim that Sauron (in the Third Age) is an actual flaming eyeball atop Barad Dur between two Tesla coils. We have some pretty awesome pics there from the movies, but no warning against this (widespread) misconception of the core Tolkien lore. Its the "Eye OF Sauron", not "Eye Sauron" or "Sauron the Eye" or whatever; its a symbol representing his near-omniscience and a vision in the minds of his enemies - its not actually him.

In fact, Gollum, the only character who might have seen Sauron in person, says he has a hand (with four fingers), which ofc implies he has some sort of body. And Denethor, who's been using the Palantir and frequently dueling with Sauron, says Sauron might come to gloat over him when he (Sauron) wins. This may be Denethor's conceit that Sauron would actually come and gloat over him of all his foes, but it implies Sauron can actually detach himself from the tesla coils :), walk up to Denethor, and laugh at him, etc. 94.253.251.102 03:59, April 4, 2014 (UTC)

Sauron is not an Ainur and it's really bothering me that it can't even be edited because it's protected... Sauron is a Maia... Not an Ainur. Can someone change it and not protect pages that don't need protecting... 

Kwikmarsh1 (talk) 20:00, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

Maia or Maiar? Maia's page goes to the little girl from Born of hope. 198.23.71.99 19:15, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

The Maiar are a type of Ainur.

Ainur include both Valar and Maiar. Please Not Me, a Ranger of the North Enter my secret hideout 15:40, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Maia vs Maiar

This article constantly links to Maia, which ends up being a girl from the fan movie Born of Hope. The Maiar page seems more accurate. 198.23.71.99 19:14, January 11, 2015 (UTC)

Tom Bombadil = Ringbearer?!

Shouldn't Tom Bombadil be in the list of ringbearers? I mean, he even WORE it (although it had no effedt (Chapter VII))! Déagol is even on the list!? I'm just saying...

KingOfMiddleEarth 21:30, February 11, 2015 (UTC)

As far as I know, it is debatable whether simply wearing/holding the ring for a short period is synonymous to bearing it. I'm not sure about Bombadil. Please Not Me, a Ranger of the North Enter my secret hideout 15:42, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Sauron's body

There's no evidence to suggest that Sauron's physical body was destroyed after the loss of the ring... indeed, texts suggest in multiple ways already listed that he was indeed physically present in the world. So that part should be removed.

Fanart

That image in the character section looks amateurish, does it have an official source? Pixel Cube (talk) 09:16, December 23, 2016 (UTC)

LEGO

So Sauron appears in both LEGO Dimensions and The LEGO Batman Movie; shouldn't we note that?Voltron23 (talk) 04:13, March 18, 2017 (UTC)

NAMES

They should add Zigur, the Adunaic name of Sauron. (Unless it's unofficial)OverlordIXI (talk) 16:12, April 22, 2017 (UTC)OverlordIII

Did Sauron use to be goood, and not corrupted?

The first paragraph is in Rumanian. not in English.

The first paragraph is in Rumanian. not in English.

Sauron (sau Þauron ( Thauron ); Quenya ; IPA : ☃☃ sau Vanyarin ; IPA: ☃☃ - "Îngrozitorul"), episcopul Domnului Inelelor , a fost Maia căzută , creatorul Inelului Unic ; cel mai de încredere locotenent al stăpânului său Melkor (Morgoth, primul Lord întunecat). După înfrângerea lui Melkor în prima epocă , Sauron a devenit al doilea Lord Întunecat și sa străduit să cucerească Arda creând inelele puterii . În a doua epocă, el a fost invins în războiul ultimei Alianțe de ultima linie de apărare: Elfii și Bărbații sub regii Gil-galad și Elendil.

2600:1702:1140:B1D0:F83D:7CF4:D5DE:4295 23:00, January 19, 2019 (UTC)Passerby

NOT WESTRON!

"Ash nazg durbatulûk..." does NOT translate to "One Ring to rule them all..." in Westron. It translates into that IN ENGLISH, since that sentence is clearly English. Westron is not the same as English. Westron is the common speech in The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, so most of the dialogue would have been in Westron - but for the readers of the books this has been "translated" into English. Therefore saying "One Ring to rule them all..." is Westron is a very strange thing to say, since this isn't Westron at all. It's English. Nattypoos (talk) 14:10, December 2, 2019 (UTC)