#indiewebcamp 2013-06-10

2013-06-10 UTC
b0bg0d, andreypopp, christopheducamp, xtof, fmarier, bnvk, tantek and sandeepshetty joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty I'm done implementing receiving webmentions and looking for context for likes, repost, mentions and comments...
#
sandeepshetty http://www.sandeep.io/39
#
sandeepshetty still some work left to do on extracting other details like h-card info and actual comments but I'm storing raw content for now and should be done implementing that in a few days
#
sandeepshetty Looking forward to receiving some likes :)
bnvk, b0bg0d, jedahan and andreypopp joined the channel
#
aaronpk ooh nice sandeepshetty
b0bg0d, bnvk and JonathanNeal joined the channel
#
JonathanNeal Hello!
#
aaronpk good morning!
#
JonathanNeal Good morning, aaronpk.
#
JonathanNeal Is anyone using the <main> element in production that we know of?
#
aaronpk i certainly haven't seen it
#
JonathanNeal Well, that ends that discussion then. :)
#
aaronpk haha
#
JonathanNeal Next question, do <hn> elements section content by their very nature?
#
aaronpk in what context?
#
aaronpk i believe google takes the header level into account in some way
#
JonathanNeal In any context. If I put <h2>foo</h2><h3>bar</h3> then are any non-headings that follow it assumed to be about "bar", which is itself a subject of "foo"?
#
aaronpk I'm not aware of anything that parses the content in that much detail
#
JonathanNeal http://gsnedders.html5.org/outliner/
#
aaronpk interesting
#
JonathanNeal I think this is why <hgroup> was introduced.
#
JonathanNeal So that instances of `<h1>Some Title</h1><h2>Some Slogan</h2>` wouldn't technically outline all the <h3> elements on the page as being subsections of 'Some Slogan'.
#
aaronpk i'm curious what your use case is for all this
#
JonathanNeal Outside of writing valid, properly marked up HTML?
#
aaronpk right
b0bg0d joined the channel
#
aaronpk i mean I'm all for properly constructed HTML, but that only piques my interest so far unless there are concrete benefits on the other side
#
JonathanNeal Concrete as in introducing new HTML that somehow is properly understood by search engines instantly?
#
aaronpk search engines or indieweb sites, yea
#
aaronpk i've spent some time making sure my site is marked up with proper microformats-2 markup so everyone else's sites can pull out the content easily
#
JonathanNeal Similar to the expression "I won't give you respect until you've shown me respect", if you need that kind of evidence followed to the T, then it is self-defeating.
#
JonathanNeal And the search engines will never care to support the code you refuse to write.
#
aaronpk i'm not refusing to write it, i'm just more interested in spending time on markup that provides more immediate benefits
#
aaronpk if I had unlimited time that would be a different story
#
JonathanNeal Well, Geoffrey Sneddon wrote an outliner that shows you how markup is property formatted.
#
JonathanNeal And those who implemented <hgroup> were able to properly separate subsection headings from headings with multiple parts.
bnvk joined the channel
#
aaronpk ok... what is the end result?
#
JonathanNeal aka <h1>Flowers</h1><h2>Roses</h2><h1>Birds</h1><h2>Eagles</h2> vs <h1>IndieWebCamp</h1><h2>Why Indie Web</h2><h1>CorporateWebCollective</h1><h2>Why the Borg are Right</h2>
#
aaronpk aren't those analogous?
#
JonathanNeal In some cases, headings are used for sectioning, and in other cases, they are used to rank headings that represent a single section.
#
aaronpk ok, so what is the immediate benefit?
#
JonathanNeal The immediate benefit is that you can mark those up in a manner where the difference is clear.
#
JonathanNeal Sorry, my examples were poor. I meant to say something like
#
JonathanNeal <h1>Team of Rivals</h1><h2>The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln</h2>
#
JonathanNeal In this case, the <h2> is not a sub-section of the <h1>, it is merely a subheading.
#
JonathanNeal it expands on or complements the real heading of the section. On websites, we see these as slogans, typically.
#
JonathanNeal So, the immediate benefit is, you can write a document where you can definitely determine that <hgroup><h1>Team of Rivals</h1><h2>The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln</h2></hgroup> is a collection of headings, rather than a heading followed by a sub-section heading (which is the default interpretation).
#
aaronpk but why do I need to be able to determine that from the markup? I know what I meant.
#
aaronpk also anybody reading the article is going to just see two headers, they won't see the hgroup at all. unless of course you are implying some sort of alternate styling along with that extra element
#
JonathanNeal But someone else might not. It might not be clear to the person who does not understand anything about what you're writing about, or the person who uses an accessibility engine to experience the web or the web outliner or the search engine that hasn't perfected algorithm for your subject.
#
JonathanNeal To know whether or not your <h2> is an elaboration instead of a subsection.
#
JonathanNeal For instance, iOS Safari has a built in reader that translates webpages into a pseudo-book format, so in this case, the <hgroup> helps it know whether your <h2> represents a subheading of one particular chapter, or begins a section within that chapter.
#
JonathanNeal Anyway, I hope that answers your question, and I'm sorry if it does not.
#
aaronpk that's helpful. i guess i just haven't come across many examples where that sort of distinction is actually used
#
JonathanNeal I have, and I've been trying to think of an even better way to do it, but that will have to wait for another conversation.
#
JonathanNeal Examples like "Tim Burton's" "The Nightmare Before Christmas", and "Star Wars" "The Empire Strikes Back" (where the emphasis is on The Empire...), and "The Adventures of" "Tom Sawyer".
ShishKabab, cweiske, b0bg0d and bnvk joined the channel
#
bret i think hgroup is being retired isnt it?
#
bret but you still are allowed to use your range of headers for different context rather than uniform use across the whole page
#
bret and by allowed, i mean that is the idea
julien51 joined the channel
#
bret aaronpk, you know much about the push for portland fiber? http://www.connectusmovie.com/2013/03/the-personal-telco-project.html
#
bret just started googling it this evening
#
aaronpk I knew about it a couple years ago, haven't been keeping up with it much lately
#
bret i just noticed the small detail on my comcast bill noting that my rate is only good for 12 months
#
bret honestly, im scared as to what it could go up too
#
aaronpk yea :/ also the crazy thing is my cell phone's LTE is almost as fast as my home comcast connection
#
aaronpk might as well just tether all the time and not have home internet :/
#
aaronpk heading to bed. good night!
#
bret bye
#
Loqi sleep tight!
eschnou joined the channel
#
cweiske http://tante.cc/2013/05/20/host-your-own-is-cynical/
b0bg0d joined the channel
#
@kyledrake @aley That's the plan! Right before @indiewebcamp
bnvk, julien51, b0bg0d, moncky, friedcell, erikmaarten and barnabywalters joined the channel
#
pdurbin "Everything else is just you telling the world how great you are and that your own skill set is the one skill set everybody needs."
bnvk, peck_lx, julien51, b0bg0d and eschnou joined the channel
#
Garbee pdurbin, It is true in that context I think.
#
Garbee Pretty interesting view on it.
julien51 joined the channel
#
pdurbin definitely interesting
#
pdurbin cweiske: thanks for sharing it
#
evaryont good bloody morning #indiewebcamp :)
b0bg0d, brbcoding and JonathanNeal joined the channel
#
bnvk evaryont: let's hope it's not too bloody of a morning
#
evaryont bnvk: hah, it's just too early to be awake
#
bnvk evaryont: where are you?
#
evaryont Phoenix AZ - 5AM
#
bnvk Ouch, yes, that is early :]
#
barnabywalters evaryont: depends where you are :) this room spans loads of timezones
#
barnabywalters sandeepshetty is even in one of those cool :30 offset ones
#
evaryont lol awesome
#
barnabywalters (http://indiewebcamp.com/IRC_People)
#
evaryont yeah, by the way, new to the whole thing, and of course the wiki says Go To IRC! so.. here I am.
#
barnabywalters evaryont: great, welcome to #indiewebcamp! do you have a personal domain?
#
bnvk Velkomin!
#
evaryont yeah, two actually, lol
#
brennannovak.com edited /IRC_People (+49) (view diff)
#
barnabywalters evaryont: links?
#
evaryont evaryont.me & colin.shea.at
#
brennannovak.com edited /IRC_People (+0) (view diff)
#
barnabywalters evaryont: nice, if you add rel=me to those external links you’ll be able to log into the wiki
#
barnabywalters with github
#
pdurbin or (supposedly) google+
#
evaryont aw, no OpenID? :)
#
barnabywalters pdurbin: on indieauth? since when?
#
barnabywalters evaryont: we had oauth for a while but it was causing loads of problems :(
#
barnabywalters it’d be great to have it working again
#
barnabywalters aaronpk is the person to ask about that
#
pdurbin barnabywalters: I didn't try it but a couple of weeks ago it was green, like github
#
evaryont barnabywalters: OpenID != OAuth :)
#
barnabywalters oops, my bad. typo
#
barnabywalters s/oauth/openid
#
bnvk evaryont: do you know PHX dev named Bobby Borszich ?
#
bnvk or Brian Shaler?
#
barnabywalters pdurbin: woah, really? what’s your google plus URL?
#
pdurbin barnabywalters: it's on http://greptilian.com
#
evaryont nah, though sounds like neat people.
#
evaryont Could use with some programmer friends :)
#
barnabywalters no way! <a class="nX url UHHO0c" href="http://greptilian.com" rel="me nofollow" target="_blank" title="greptilian.com is my domain">greptilian.com is my domain</a>
#
barnabywalters there’s a rel me in there all right
scor joined the channel
#
pdurbin wait, I thought Google was evil ;)
#
barnabywalters there are auth providers I’d rather use, sure, but nothing bad about having more choice
#
pdurbin +1
#
tantek scrolls up
#
tantek pdurbin - Google is a mixed bag
#
tantek there are good / neutral / evil parts of Google, all vying for mindshare (and I'm sure in deep internal battles)
#
tantek this is from having attended Google I/O this year and gotten a lot of mixed messages
#
evaryont yeah, some of the "anonymous developer" stories I've found online about the new Hangouts sounds a lot like that :/
#
evaryont also, hello tantek! :)
#
tantek JonathanNeal - <hgroup> is too edge case to be worth putting into the core spec, hence why I supported dropping it from HTML5 (despite liking it and using it myself).
#
tantek all the examples you gave were theoretical - like no one's actually had to publish that stuff online
#
tantek do you have any real world *web* publishing examples where hgroup was actually necessary?
#
tantek in the years that it was in the spec, very few actually needed it
#
tantek evaryont - greetings! and welcome!
mxuribe joined the channel
#
tommorris hey tantek - just writing a quick evangelism post. ;)
#
tantek oh nice - on what subject? ;)
#
tantek (hopefully not hgroup ;) )
#
tommorris indieweb ;)
#
evaryont bnvk: should I reach out to those devs?
#
tommorris http://tommorris.org/posts/8353
#
barnabywalters tommorris: +1 for out-webbing facebook et al
#
tommorris thanks barnabywalters
#
barnabywalters reposted/quoted ;) and I remembered to use the web action toolbelt quote highlighting thing this time
#
tommorris manually put a link back
#
tommorris really need to implement pingback sometime soon
#
julien51 tommorris great post! :p
#
tommorris ta
b0bg0d joined the channel
#
@JonoBeckwith http://indiewebcamp.com/why
#
barnabywalters any thoughts on giving each <p> (or similar) element within an article an @id so it has it’s own URL?
#
cweiske generally a good idea
#
cweiske you need to make sure they stay the same when restructuring your articles later on
#
barnabywalters cweiske: yep, that would be the challenge
#
cweiske which means you should tie their IDs to the heading they are in
#
cweiske e.g.
#
erikmaarten why does every paragraph need a URL?
#
cweiske headline-id-5
#
cweiske to link to it
#
cweiske barnabywalters, your headlines should have ids anyway
#
grawity I remember a project named "Purple numbers" that tried this
#
barnabywalters cweiske: they should indeed, I just haven’t implemented them yet
#
cweiske medium.com does that
#
cweiske people can comment on individual paragraphs there
#
tommorris the problem you end up with is if you restructure your paragraphs. ;)
#
barnabywalters I store my articles as HTML but wasn’t sure whether to store the IDs or add them dynamically
#
barnabywalters storing is more robust but makes editing noisier
#
cweiske barnabywalters, initially i'd automatically create them
#
cweiske and later on keep them
#
tommorris I added them dynamically in my old system, and had to do all sorts of evil things with hashing
#
barnabywalters cweiske: yep, that’s how I’m treating markdown (author in markdown, store the results not the original source)
#
barnabywalters so I’ll probably do that for paragraph ids too
#
tommorris so each paragraph, I'd basically use LibXML to hash a paragraph number
#
erikmaarten cweiske: commenting on individual paragraphs or even on arbitrary text parts would be nice, especially when debating/arguing about something, is there any current implementation available like that?
#
tommorris which would be based on the internal object reference of the element in a DOM tree
#
cweiske erikmaarten, as I said: medium.com
#
cweiske the gplv3 discussion page had this even for single words and sentences
#
barnabywalters another interesting implementation of per-p commenting is this: http://book.realworldhaskell.org/read/why-functional-programming-why-haskell.html
#
tommorris so, the other way to do it is to have it so the article content is stored in a version control repository. that way you can basically generate new paragraph IDs from the deltas.
#
tommorris another interesting per-blob-of-content-commenting is TheyWorkForYou - see http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2013-06-03a.937.4
#
barnabywalters tommorris: that sounds complicated ;) I think I’ll just initially generate them from headline and first few words, then deal with them manually after that
#
barnabywalters this is clearly enough of a thing to document
#
tommorris barnabywalters: obviously, I'd shoot for the complicated XML-based solution rather than the simple solution. ;)
#
cweiske in medium, you can also select individual words
#
cweiske and get a popup button to comment on them
#
barnabywalters cweiske: yeah, medium’s UI is nice. it was one of the inspirations for the highlighting feature in web actions toolbelt
#
barnabywalters branch goes a step further and allows you to fork a conversation on a sentence
eschnou joined the channel
#
erikmaarten cweiske: sorry, checking now. Pity there aren't many notes left there though.
#
cweiske huh?
#
cweiske https://medium.com/about/9e53ca408c48
#
cweiske bad example
#
tantek good post tommorris
#
cweiske look at some older ones
#
erikmaarten oh, I was just a bit unlucky when clicking random posts
#
tantek That and barnaby's post was excellent
bnvk joined the channel
#
tantek this one: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1480
#
bnvk evaryont: nah, they're not indiewebbers- just friends I know
#
waterpigs.co.uk edited /comment (+478) "/* Reply */ added section on granularity" (view diff)
#
tantek less than 2 weeks to indiewebcamp!
#
tommorris I'll be watching from home. ;)
#
barnabywalters I’ll be watching from iceland — we have a few other people who’re interested in joining us so we’re opening the office up for the weekend
#
barnabywalters due to the constant sunlight and interrupted sleep patterns, our time zones actually match up quite well :)
#
tantek out for a bit, be back in a couple of hrs
scor, peck_lx, eschnou and sandeepshetty joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty Started work on showing comments and a better UX (than spitting out json) for showing the list of likes, reposts, mentions and comments :)
b0bg0d joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty oh and I successfully sent a *Like* from my Blogger blog (http://sandeep.shetty.in/2013/06/indieweb-like-test.html) to my converspace one (http://www.sandeep.io/39 - http://www.sandeep.io/39/likes)
#
sandeepshetty aaronpk: Looking forward to your Like implementation (http://indiewebcamp.com/p3k#Favorite_.2F_Like_.2F_Star_.2F_etc)
#
sandeepshetty eschnou: Did you get my messages about the broken link-handler and receiving pingback updates for http://eschnou.com/entry/testing-indieweb-federation-with-waterpigscouk-aaronpareckicom-and--62-24908.html
#
evaryont tommorris: curious, is Ferocity available?
brianloveswords joined the channel
#
eschnou sandeepshetty, no I did not, but I did see your mention (yeah!!) and noticed my link parsing code was not handling ) correctly.
#
tommorris evaryont: no, but I might open source it at some point
#
sandeepshetty eschnou: I also updated my comment and resent the pingback... hoping that you might update it...
#
eschnou sandeepshetty, nha, unfortunately nothing that sophisticated on my end... too many things to implement.. too litle time
#
sandeepshetty I know the feeling :) I spent sometime adding a duplicate key to my webmentions tabls and doing "insert into ... on duplicate key update" to to take care of this...
#
eschnou sandeepshetty, ha, neat idea, should'nt require too much effort to implement something similar.
#
evaryont tommorris: ah, yeah, love Ruby, and you already did so much work with Ferocity, hoped to jumpstart
brbcoding joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty If it help here is the table with a duplicate key on the post id and source url hash (https://github.com/converspace/converspace/commit/2141426413658bc9340ab4ca6406c8e3a9ab97c1#L6R41) and hte code that does the insert into .... on duplicate key update (https://github.com/converspace/converspace/commit/2141426413658bc9340ab4ca6406c8e3a9ab97c1#L2R113)
#
tommorris evaryont: the problem is it's hacky and I need to decouple my personal use from the underlying code
#
evaryont tommorris: respect the latter, but what code base doesn't end up a hacky (but working!) mess? :)
#
tommorris I don't want to create Wordpress on Rails. ;)
#
barnabywalters evaryont: a good place to start would be to add a bio to evaryont.me, marked up with microformats + mf2
#
barnabywalters then add whatever makes the most sense to you — articles, notes, POSSE, etc
#
evaryont yeah. I don't think there's much of a POSSE wiki? I don't write coherent paragraphs often enough to warrant a proper blog :P
#
barnabywalters POSSE wiki?
#
evaryont but a bunch of sketches, aggregating concepts, that I can do :)
#
barnabywalters evaryont: sketches are always good!
#
erikmaarten evaryont: sounds interesting! I've been thinking a little about something a little less along the lines of a blog too, would definitely be interesting to see.
jedahan joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty eschnou: the direct install link on http://storytlr.org/ is very interesting...
#
sandeepshetty eschnou: where can I find the pingback comment code?
#
sandeepshetty I mean which branch?
#
eschnou sandeepshetty, it is on the master, here: https://github.com/storytlr/storytlr/blob/master/protected/application/public/controllers/PingbackController.php#L63
jedahan joined the channel
#
eschnou sandeepshetty, as for the direct install, more details and a screencast here: http://www.comodit.com/2013/05/15/direct-install-applications
b0bg0d, jedahan, tantek, peck_lx and julien51 joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty aaronpk: you've implemented sending webmentions right?
#
cweiske i constantly keep reading "deep shitty", sorry
#
sandeepshetty :D
morrocco_mole joined the channel
#
cweiske assume I write a blog post, someone comments on it - I get a pingback - and a third comments on the comment. how do I get notified about that so I can show the full thread in my post's comment section?
b0bg0d and jedahan joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty there isn't a generally agreed upon way to send comments upstreams yet.... there were some discussions about it like following the in-reply-to and sending notifications upstream but no one has implemented something like this yet...
#
sandeepshetty For the in-reply-to technique to work you need to have a link to atleast the immediate parent on your site so that the webmention verification process by the parent of the comment you are replying to finds a link to itself.
#
cweiske sure, that's no problem and no question
#
sandeepshetty or rather each comment needs to send it upstream when it receives a webmention from a downstream comments.. there are lots of issues with this though...
#
cweiske or think of http://p.cweiske.de/47
#
cweiske how do I (who wrote 1) get notified of 4 and 5?
#
cweiske assuming that 0 gets notified about everything, all others could query 0 for updates
#
cweiske but this assumes that replies are marked up somehow
#
barnabywalters cweiske: as assumptions go, that’s not a particularly bad one
#
cweiske how would that markup look like?
#
cweiske do we have that already?
#
barnabywalters http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-brainstorming
#
barnabywalters pretty much h-entry with p-comment
#
barnabywalters certainly that is what I’m using
#
barnabywalters (this one http://microformats.org/wiki/comment-brainstorming#microformats2_p-comment_h-entry)
#
cweiske yep
#
cweiske ok
#
cweiske how do I reply to several paragraphs in a single post?
#
cweiske as far as I see, the indieweb comments page only talks about replying to a whole post
#
cweiske not to multiple parts of a post
#
barnabywalters cweiske: several paragraphs? what exactly do you mean? you can have multiple in-reply-to URLs. or you could blockquote the part you’re replying to
#
cweiske the multiple in-reply-to interests me
#
cweiske http://p.cweiske.de/48
#
evaryont question, to be a Good Neighbor in the Indie Web, what's the full stack neccessary? I imagine it's Pingbacks/WebMentions primarily.
#
barnabywalters evaryont: pingback and webmention are certainly great things to send+receive
#
barnabywalters we don’t really have a “stack” (in the “ostatus”) sense, but we have http://indiewebcamp.com/building-blocks
#
cweiske barnabywalters, I would need multiple h-entry blocks to have multiple in-reply-to if I understand correct
#
tantek evaryont - there is no "full stack" yet because it is a work in progress
#
evaryont yeah, I realized.
#
tantek anyone who is selling you a full stack is either deceiving you, or naive or both
#
barnabywalters cweiske: why? you can have one h-entry with multiple in-reply-to URLs
#
cweiske http://p.cweiske.de/48
#
tantek however, we're working on some measurement of "indie-ness" with indiemark
#
barnabywalters ah, I see what you mean
#
tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/indiemark
#
cweiske barnabywalters, how do does the remote figure out which belongs to what?
#
barnabywalters how do the pinged sites know which are which. good point
#
cweiske if the remote implements medium.com-style per-paragraph comments
#
tantek cweiske - in that case - are you just replying to multiple paragraphs of a same post?
#
cweiske yes
#
tantek if so, there's just one in-reply-to - the post
#
cweiske I don't reply to the post
#
evaryont tantek: Not neccesarily looking to buy a 'stack' but know which ones are more defined, and thus, I should target to get connected to the indieweb ASAP
#
evaryont :)
#
cweiske I have something to say to some of the paragraphs
#
tantek cweiske - in practice, such reply to paragraphs do start out with a citation of the entire post by name
#
tantek and you can set that as in-reply-to
#
tantek most replies only reply to part of the original
#
tantek so that's ok
#
tantek you don't have to reply to the entire post
#
tantek evaryont - yes, then indiemark is a good place to start
#
barnabywalters evaryont: place to start is personal bio with h-card, then something resembling the “notes” we’re all posting as h-entry with pingback/webmention
#
tantek after /getting_started of course
#
tantek http://indiewebcamp.com/Getting_Started
#
tantek evaryont - that should keep you busy for a bit :0
#
tantek :)
#
evaryont tantek: ah, lol it would indeed
#
tantek out again - bbiab
b0bg0d and morrocco_mole joined the channel
#
barnabywalters cweiske: potential solution for the comments-on-single paragraphs: if the <p>s have URLs, then you could put them in the <blockquote> cite attribute, then on receiving the comment the implementation figures out which parts of the comment are for which paragraph
#
barnabywalters but that is overcomplicated
#
cweiske barnabywalters, figuring out is still not really possible since you'd have to assume that everything following the blockquote is a comment to that blockquote
#
cweiske but that might work if you enclosed blockquote + commend in a div or so
#
barnabywalters well if anyone actually implements it we’ll figure it out then :)
#
cweiske http://p.cweiske.de/48
sandeepshetty joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty barnabywalters: Do you have pingback comments working? want to test something...
#
barnabywalters sandeepshetty: I think I have pingback comments working, haven’t been able to test it properly yet
#
sandeepshetty commenting on your 2nd gurdy post...
#
barnabywalters tune or photo?
#
sandeepshetty photo
#
sandeepshetty give me 2 min.. I've come up with a way to make likes/reposts appear as comments if the receiver doesn't support them.
#
barnabywalters nice thing about mention being implicit is any unsupported response type falls back to it
#
barnabywalters provided it’s marked up decently
morrocco_mole joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty Sent.. don't see it on your site
#
barnabywalters :( I’ll check my logs
#
barnabywalters hm, it showed up at http://waterpigs.co.uk/mentions
#
JonathanNeal hello
#
barnabywalters ah! I know why. forgot to update my config file
#
JonathanNeal is there a bot in here that will leave messages?
#
barnabywalters JonathanNeal: yeah, !tell username message message
#
sandeepshetty barnabywalters: fixed? will I need to resend it?
#
barnabywalters sandeepshetty: let me just delete the current one so you won’t get an already-received error
#
sandeepshetty cool... I think appfog just went down... so I'll have to wait for a bit (hopefully)
#
JonathanNeal thanks barnabywalters
#
sandeepshetty barnabywalters: ok it's back.. let me know when to resend it
#
barnabywalters sandeepshetty: okay, I removed the mention, go for it :)
#
barnabywalters hooray! http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/1482/
#
barnabywalters my first federated comment/like — thanks sandeepshetty!
#
sandeepshetty :)
#
sandeepshetty now I just need someone to implement webmention so I can receive them :D
#
barnabywalters sandeepshetty: I’m on it after work today :)
#
barnabywalters I have all the checking logic abstracted so it should be really easy
#
sandeepshetty barnabywalters: you can also do it manually: http://www.sandeep.io/39 ... I just sent that pingback to your site manually using the template aaronpk gave me yesterday
#
barnabywalters sandeepshetty: that’s handy
#
barnabywalters have you put that snippet on /webmention? very useful for testing
hmans joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty Nope, just wrote up that today... waiting for some feedback and more dogfooding before I add it
#
sandeepshetty Implementing likes and reposts made me realize WebMention needs the ability to also undo stuff.. turns out it's real easy to do.. will be updating the spec soon...
#
barnabywalters why wait? it’s useful for testing, if anyone has any problem with it they can just change/discuss it
#
barnabywalters +1 for updating the spec *based on implementations*
#
sandeepshetty I guess I'm waiting to see how these experiemtal classes and use-cases pan out... but your right in that it's good document even experiments... will update the wiki later tonight...
#
barnabywalters specifically I meant the cURL command
#
sandeepshetty Ah ok just adding that... I was going to add that to the spec as well
aaronpk and scor joined the channel
#
aaronpk sandeepshetty: nice!
#
aaronpk and yes I send webmention and/or pingbacks when I link to things
#
sandeepshetty aaronpk: Do you want to try liking this? http://www.sandeep.io/39
#
aaronpk i do, but i'm not really set up for that yet
#
aaronpk still working on publishing sleep data, made some good progress this weekend
#
sandeepshetty Are you using php markdown extra?
#
sandeepshetty aaronpk: rather I meant trying it manually: http://www.sandeep.io/39
#
aaronpk heh I suppose I can do that
morrocco_mole and hober joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty aaronpk: how do i avoid auto linking in pre block on the wiki?
#
aaronpk try <pre><code>... I think it doesn't auto-link in <code> blocks
#
aaronpk heh, I really am not set up for sending this like
#
sandeepshetty what seems to be the blocker?
#
aaronpk because my notes expect plaintext input, I can't actually write HTML in them
#
aaronpk so it would have to be an article, but that's a bit overkill
#
sandeepshetty aaronpk: re auto-linking I just used <nowiki>
#
aaronpk ah that works
#
sandeepshetty oh does it take markdown?
#
aaronpk no, just plain text
#
aaronpk my articles are written in markdown but I can add arbitrary HTML too
#
sandeep.io edited /webmention (+524) "Snippets to send Webmention and Pingback manually." (view diff)
#
sandeepshetty aaronpk: do you use php markdown extra?
#
aaronpk yea
#
aaronpk plus some pre-processing of my own
#
sandeepshetty you can then do this (which is what I do): [Indieweb Federated Likes](http://www.sandeep.io/39){.u-like}
spinnerin, ShishKabab, andreypopp and josephboyle joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty aaronpk: http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2013/06/09/1/jawboneup-fuelband-qs
#
aaronpk nice!
#
aaronpk hah that's hilarious
#
aaronpk so if I recognize that "u-like" i can choose to present it differently
#
sandeepshetty What is?
#
sandeepshetty yep.. you can show it as a like..
#
sandeepshetty with counts and stuff :)
#
aaronpk definitely will do that
#
aaronpk sweet yea I've already got the "like" property in my data store
#
sandeepshetty and since you store the original content and parsed json you can figure out that this was a like once you've implement it
#
aaronpk ok this is probably next up on my list after I finish what I'm in hte middle of
#
sandeepshetty BTW, one of the reasons I don't differentiate between post type is to not have this issue of what is appropriate... I just want to post (re. articles are an overkill for sending likes)
#
sandeepshetty sandeep.io is all just one stream coming from me...
#
sandeepshetty maybe the difference is just in the feed presentation..
#
sandeepshetty 1 stream vs multiple streams
#
sandeepshetty also that post of your is another example of something I would like but not share :)
#
aaronpk question about that
#
aaronpk there's been some discussion about showing inline "link previews"
#
aaronpk oh you already do it
#
aaronpk so how is this not sharing my content? my text is on your site http://www.sandeep.io/40
#
sandeepshetty it is currently.. I think eventually I might de-emphasize likes because they are meant more for me than my readers
#
sandeepshetty re major/minor activity like in pump.io
#
sandeepshetty which is why I was asking evanpro about it yesterday
#
sandeepshetty also the fact that it's like gives a different signal to my readers as oppsed to a repost.
#
sandeepshetty s/it's/it's a
#
Loqi sandeepshetty meant to say: also the fact that it's a like gives a different signal to my readers as oppsed to a repost.
#
sandeep.io edited /repost (+65) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
#
sandeepshetty is eagerly waiting for the likes here http://www.sandeep.io/39 to go from 1 to 2 :) anyone? :D
b0bg0d, spindrit1, andreypopp, tantek and eschnou joined the channel
#
@sandeepshetty #converspace now makes Likes/Reposts appear as sensible comments if receiver has not implemented them yet #indieweb (http://www.sandeep.io/41)
julien51 joined the channel
#
@fczuardi Life in the possibly bright future of the federated social indieweb http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/2013/06/08/bright-fedsocindweb/
#
evaryont aaronpk: What, if any, license is there on the pingback.me code? Would like to, in particular, copy the handling methods
#
aaronpk did I not add a license file yet?
#
evaryont er, process_* methods
#
evaryont Nope, not there.
#
aaronpk ah forgot to do that... I usually do BSD
#
aaronpk fixed!
#
aaronpk thanks!
scor and jedahan joined the channel
#
bre.tc edited /2013/Guest_List (+0) "/* Official Guest List */ Updated RSVP count" (view diff)
#
tantek Thanks bret
#
tantek wow down to 14 spots left!
#
sandeep.io edited /User:Sandeep.io (+140) (view diff)
bnvk, mxuribe, andreypopp, Phae and wycats_ joined the channel
#
bret it seems like quite a few of the IWC2013 participants websites are down :(
cweiske__ joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty Signing out for the day. Wrapped up testing of receiving likes, reposts and mentions on this post: http://www.sandeep.io/39 On to comments tomorrow. Later.
peck_lx and fmarier joined the channel
#
@sandeepshetty http://www.sandeep.io/39 has now successfully received federated Likes, Reposts and regular Mentions #indieweb #rssb #fedsocweb #converspace
josephboyle, brbcoding, jcinis and sandeepshetty joined the channel
#
sandeepshetty evanpro: pump.io clients are primarily just activitystream (feed) readers right?
#
evanpro Kinda
#
evanpro Each person has two main feeds
#
evanpro 1. Inbox
#
evanpro 2. Outbox
#
evanpro Inbox contains everything that you and your friends have done
#
evanpro Outbox contains just stuff that you have done
#
evanpro The API works kind of like the Atom Pub API
#
evanpro In that you do something new by posting an Activity to your own outbox
#
evanpro Which is kind of the RESTful way
#
evanpro Other people can post stuff to your inbox, also
#
sandeepshetty so the client post to the outbox, which is a pump.io server, which in turn delivers it to whoever it was addressed to?
#
evanpro There are a lot of details but that's the essence of it
b0bg0d joined the channel
#
evanpro sandeepshetty: exactly
#
pdurbin evanpro: are you always here and I never noticed?
#
evanpro And there's some default routing if you don't include an address
#
evanpro pdurbin: no, I am not
#
pdurbin heh. ok :)
#
sandeepshetty yeah I saw that....
#
evanpro Usually pretty reasonable
#
evanpro Like most content creation goes to your followers
#
sandeepshetty so apart from posting to the outbox, a client is just a reader for the inbox?
#
evanpro And favoriting an object goes to that object's original recipients + the author
#
evanpro sandeepshetty: Ummm... more or less
jedahan joined the channel
#
evanpro Well, there are some interesting extra feeds that are attached to the objects
#
sandeepshetty like?
#
evanpro For example, every person has followers, following, lists, favorites feeds
#
evanpro Most content-like objects have replies, likes, and shares
#
evanpro Groups have members and their own inbox
#
evanpro Lists have members
#
evanpro That kind of thing
#
evanpro So a typical client will read the inbox feed...
#
evanpro ...and then if you click on a note or an image...
#
evanpro ...it will fetch all the likes and replies and stuff to show you.
#
evanpro A little more detail.
#
Loqi FETCH ALL THE LIKES http://loqi.me/7SA
#
evanpro https://e14n.com/evan <-- this shows most of the feeds attached to my profile
#
sandeepshetty ok I see that in the collection properties section
#
evanpro https://fmrl.me/habi/image/piA0wT5HSv-Hej64b5sYxw <-- here's an object with replies and likes and stuff
#
evanpro The objects in a feed usually have roll-up information like the total count of replies and the last 4 or so
#
sandeep.io created /pump.io (+89) "Created page with "{{stub}} Evan explain pump.io on IRC: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2013-06-10#t1370892851"" (view diff)
#
sandeepshetty evanpro: thanks. That helps.
#
evanpro sandeepshetty: Cool
#
evanpro I just thought of two other feeds
#
sandeepshetty ?
#
evanpro Every user has a feed of the objects they've uploaded
#
evanpro ...and there's a site-wide feed of all users
#
sandeepshetty right
#
evanpro I think that's it
#
evanpro There are some other administrivia endpoints like for Webfinger and OAuth and so on
#
sandeepshetty evanpro: ok figured it doesn't make sense to write a lib without figuring out how it's going to be used.. might make sense to write a client first then extract the lib.
#
evanpro sandeepshetty: interesting
#
evanpro I've done 3-4 clients at this point
#
sandeepshetty you mean like for the farm game and stuff?
#
evanpro 1. The default Web UI is just an HTML5 client in Backbone, Bootstrap, spit and grit and duct tape
#
evanpro 2. OpenFarmGame
#
evanpro 3. Pump2StatusNet
#
evanpro 4. ih8.it
#
evanpro (and hip2.it)
#
evanpro I think I'm falling into a pattern
#
sandeepshetty ?
#
sandeepshetty it looks like the api endpoints are not discoverable right?
eschnou and bnvk joined the channel
#
evanpro Uh
#
evanpro Dang
#
evanpro Well I'll just answer
#
evanpro https://e14n.com/.well-known/[email protected] shows the two endpoints
#
evanpro "activity-inbox" and "activity-outbox"
#
evanpro There are also links in the Activity Streams representation of the person
#
evanpro {"links": [{"rel": "activity-inbox", "href": "..."}]}
#
evanpro I don't think there are links in the HTML representation
#
evanpro Really there should be
#
JonathanNeal Earlier, when I was talking about the use or misuse of <hn> elements, I was noticing that CNN's homepage had such an isue.
#
JonathanNeal <h1>Is this guy a hero or a traitor?></h1><h1>Edward Snowden says he exposed secret spy program</h1>
#
EHLOVader google's webmaster tools will warn you when you have two of those won't they?
#
EHLOVader actually most validators, but that came up in my mind first
b0bg0d, tilgovi, jedahan, tilgovi_ and bnvk joined the channel